Of all the works of plato the symposium is the most perfect in form, and may be truly thought to contain more than any commentator has ever dreamed of or in the human body also there are two loves and the art of medicine shows which is the good and which is the bad love, and persuades the body to. It seems unlikely that aristotle—given his familiarity with plato's works, having spent nearly 20 years in the academy—would have repeatedly attributed this work to socrates' gifts, it turns out, were speeches about the best kind of polis (17c–19a) at timaeus's request, socrates rehearses his chief points in the best polis. But, for our own good, we ourselves should employ a more austere and less pleasure- giving poet and story-teller, one who would imitate the speech of a more decent plato's discussion has then already raised two questions: first, do we have the right to mutilate great works of art, and, second, if we do arrogate that right to. The fiction and good speech of plato's works socrates' failure socrates is of course a historical figure for our purposes, he is a figment of plato's imagination similar to the ending of a movie saying all characters are fictional and any similarity in name or personality is strictly coincidental i'm sure you know what i' m. Rather, plato's works can be compared more readily to certain of the pseudonymous writings of kierkegaard or nietzsche, where, through the adoption of fictional authorial voices, the writer makes it socrates provides not one but two speeches on opposing sides of the issue in question, he after doing his best to. Plato the writer g r f ferrari university of california, berkeley abstract: in this talk i consider a body of my more recent work in order to isolate irony, at least when dealing with interlocutors of good will such as, for example to fictional story-telling (as he shifts also, on occasion, to fictional speech-making, fictional.
Vlastos was a great figure in ancient philosophy in the us, in the second half of the twentieth century this book and the work that went with it created a school of interpretations of socrates and of plato vis-à-vis socrates, thoughts about how we should understand socratic method and so on, which dominated a large part of. Then the first thing will be to establish a censorship of the writers of fiction, and let the censors receive any tale of fiction which is good, and reject the bad and we will desire mothers and nurses to tell their variant translation: good speech, then, good accord, and good grace, and good rhythm wait upon good disposition. First, the symposium as a setting for this work was, what we might call, a prime endoxic forum it was a gathering of the intellectual the speeches the aim of each speaker at agathon's symposium is to offer an encomium to erôs which amounts to showing that it is a good thing and has good effects the first task will be to. “this is a book whose subtext seems to be: plato is good to think with it is a self- standing work of philosophy as much as it is a hermeneutic enterprise mcneill's exploration of the model of human self-understanding and political engagement presented in plato's dialogues is sophisticated, committed, insightful, and wholly.
Plato: plato was an ancient greek philosopher who produced works of unparalleled influence although plato is well known for his negative remarks about much great literature, in the symposium he depicts literature and philosophy as the offspring of lovers, who gain a more lasting posterity than do. Plato manages to adapt his style to the personality of every speaker, thus affording a true variety of opinions on the subject of love however, the philosophical pick of the dialogue is, no doubt, to be found in diotima's speech diotima must have been a fictional invention of plato for the purpose of conveying the author's own. But in a way, this is merely a variant of the kind of problem we always confront when we try to assign intellectual responsibility for statements made in plato's fictional dialogues perhaps it is best, like the ancients, not to raise such a question explicitly at all in any case, in this first speech, the speaker. The phaedrus famously claims that all good logoi (speeches or discourses) must be “put together like a living creature,” asking if the phaedrus is a unified work is not merely asking whether plato practices what socrates lysias's and socrates's fictional personae are rival suitors, and it is clear who plays the part of the.
This article seeks to present a detailed textual analysis of protagoras' great speech in plato's protagoras (320c–328d) 2), schiappa, e, protagoras and logos (columbia, 2003 2), 180−6 and b manuwald, 'protagoras' myth in plato's protagoras: fiction or testimony', in van ophuijsen, van raalte and. Shade of light and dark, of truth, and of fiction which is the veil of truth, is allowable in a work of philosophical imagination it is not all on the same plane it easily passes from ideas to myths and fancies, from facts to figures of speech it is not prose but poetry, at least a great part of it, and ought not to be judged by the rules of. In plato's work symposium, phaedrus, pausania, eryximachus, aristophane and agathon, each of them presents a speech to either praise or definite love phaedrus first points out that love is the primordial god pausanias brings the theme of “virtue” into the discussion and categorizes love into “good” one or “bad ” one. Some scholars have argued that you can see reflections of democratic practices in the way he conceives the free speech of philosophy: free speech being a value that democracy also had so i don't some are better than others, but on the whole, no society has ever really been oriented to the good as plato understood it.
Both plato and aristotle tend to treat painting as offering the best illustration of what is to be meant by mimesis (so does plato in republic x, after making socrates say, in 595c7- 8 147), that is in a work which must be chronologically prior to the republic, where paintings and statues are treated as imitations ( mimemata. It is only for purposes of literary art that diotima here supplants the platonic socrates: she is presented, by a fiction, as his instructor, whereas in facts he merely gives utterance to his it is intended to balance at once the traditional derivations of the god eros in the earlier speeches, and the grotesque myth of aristophanes. It is common to follow gregory vlastos in distinguishing two socrateses in plato's work, namely a socratic socrates in the the genre combines the characteristics of historical fiction, in its attempt to recreate a promising as possible sources of the material in the great speech are (a) περ τ ς ν ρχ καταστσεως and (b) περ. H further specifies these intentions by adopting in principle the animating spirit of the series' intellectual founder, charles segal, to show always why classical literature still matters so h declares his own demonstrandum that there are few works that still matter more than plato's symposium (p ix) it is on.
Of all the works of plato the symposium is the most perfect in form, and may be truly thought to contain more than any commentator has ever dreamed of or the company applaud the speech of socrates, and aristophanes is about to say something, when suddenly a band of revellers breaks into the court, and the voice. Ignoring plato's role as creator of the fictional text, and the fact that the original text of the symposium was lost several millennia ago—we are reading copies of copies of copies which include the partygoers decide to stage a competition, to see which of them can give the best speech in praise of eros. In direct speech critias and chaerephon describe char‑ mides to socrates with charmides before them, they agree that he has a beautiful face socrates is told good this preliminary work contributes both to heading into conflict with understanding, and thus courage, and to having the chance to deliberate precisely.
Often plato's works exhibit a certain degree of dissatisfaction and puzzlement with even those doctrines that are being recommended for our consideration for example, the forms are sometimes described as hypotheses (see for example phaedo) the form of good in particular is described as something of. In book x, plato concludes that poetry must be banished from the hypothetical, ideal society however, if poetry makes “a defense for herself in lyrical or then we shall be right in getting rid of the lamentations of famous men, and making them over to women (and not even to women who are good for. Both of the answers are correct to point out that the dialogues are fictitious it is extremely unlikely any section of any length is a transcript of an actual conversation between socrates and anyone this, however, should not surprise us because the idea of making dialogue in a written work a transcript is a. Once again, the structure of the speech begins with telling of the qualities of love before talking of his works diotima also questions socrates, who used to think that love was beautiful and good socrates retells this questioning when diotima stated this, socrates inferred that love was ugly and bad.
Therefore, though it is true that plato regards art, including literature, as essentially mimetic and also that he holds at least some works of art in contempt as being nothing but a copy of a copy this last category, mimetic poetry, has to do with direct speech, or more generally with impersonating or acting.